Post by Pete on Jul 26, 2012 9:28:15 GMT 10
Hi
I though I might share some research I found on O2 sensors V o2 eliminators ?
I'm about to install some V&H short shots and investigated the O2 eliminators V's O2 sensors.
This is my understanding of eliminators V sensors
I"ve decided to go the path of getting O2 sensors holders mounted in my Vance & Hines pipes rather than O2 eliminators.
I'm currently getting some O2 sensor holders welded into my short shots ($100 from local motorbike shop mechanic, he installs the O2 sensors on all of the aftermarket pipes for the local bike shop)
O2 eliminators were $45 from eBay so $100 was not to extravagant to drill, custom make 2x holders, line them up correctly and weld.
My understanding from what i have researched, read and asked about.
Although, O2 eliminators work very great they do have one downside!!
They cannot oscillate in the 'closed loop' In the 'closed loop' the ECU reads the O2 sensor oscillations and meters fuel/air/timing to suit.
The bikes ECU has 2 systems. (as do most ECU's/Fuel injections systems since the 2000's and earlier)
Open loop & closed loop
The open loop system uses NO sensing and the ECU is working off the factory fuel mapping.
The Closed loop uses the bike sensors (O2 in this case) and meters fuel using the factory mapping values + sensor values.
The eliminators ONLY work in the closed loop because there is no sensing in open loop. This explains why there is excess fuel burnt on quick deceleration sometimes causing popping and flames.
For the majority of the time the O2 eliminators work fine but once the bike is in closed loop the eliminators only have 1 set value (usually 330ohm) and the ECU reads this 'false' value. It is the false value that sometimes causes the bike to usually run rich causing flames and popping. Some people have reported better fuel economy with eliminators but that is most likely because they are riding in open loop more and using the factor maps which are emissions + economy friendly and not power friendly.
As mentioned, I was happy to get the eliminators for my VT400 (same eliminators for the VT750) but on further research I decided to seek someone who knew how to weld O2 sensor holders. 18mm thread and correct placement.
Here is my understanding of the O2 sensor/ECU from my research and asking questions.
The O2 sensor reads the Lambda (The composition of the exhaust gasses) in the exhaust pipe and causing sensor oscillates between known voltages ( something like 0 to 1.20 volts). It is this reading that the ECU uses to determines rich or lean/more or less fuel/air mix
The eliminators work in the middle at about 0.4-0.8v which puts the eliminator just inside/outside the "closed loop"
O2 eliminators work very well because I believe the 330ohm/1/4 watt resistor that most eliminators use resist voltage at the middle point BUT once you are outside the middle zone and into closed loop the resistor value is false (because the resistor cannot oscillate) thus the ECU meters to suit the false value and the bike runs rich.
Rich = more fuel = more fuel = flames & popping.
Note:
Adding a better air filter helps inprove air flow. Therefore, if the bike is running rich (O2 eliminator) combined with better air flow (say, K&N filter) this would = more power?
However, this is not something I've yet to research.
I will get a K&N air filter but only because they are much better than stock.
I hope this was of value and not TOO incorrect.
Cheers, Peter
OH... PS.
HOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN O2 Eliminator
DISCLAIMER: I have NOT performed this and as such cannot vouch for the accuracy of the procedure. However, looking at the O2 eliminators this looks concurrent.
If someone has an O2 eliminator they may like to 'open' up the heat shrink to see what ohms are used? as eliminators are simply resistors.
The ECU send a signal to the sensor but the eliminator 'resist/limits' the signal thus sending back a resisted/limited signal to the ECU thus the ECU meters fuel of the signal sent back.
Buy 2x Dick Smith/Jaycar 330ohm/1/4 watt resistor .50c each
Locate your O2 sensor and unclip the O2 sensor.
Most eliminators are a male plug (found on the actual O2 sensor wires) and where the wires from the sensor would usually go is where the resistor is put.
The sensor connector on the actual bike should be a female connector so seating the resistor should be easy enough into the female connector holes
Locate the 4 wires going into the sensor connector that goes to the Bike /ECU
The wires that feed to the ECU are the white + black white
Firmly seat the resistor wires into the female connectors and carefully fill the connector with silicon to help seat the resistor or electrical tape the resistor into the connector or if your handy, solder the resistor in.
Tuck the newly eliminated sensor connector out of the way.
Your done.... a 50c eliminator.
I think the reason the aftermarket eliminators are dearer is because they source the male plug, put the resistor into the wire holes on the male plug. You then simply clip the male plug eliminator into your female bike connector.
This would be the same as you simply putting the same resistor into the female connector attached to your bike?
Well... I hope this has been of value and as always.
Read my DISCLAIMER that indicated I will not be responsible for what YOU do on YOUR bike. I will not be responsible for you blowing your bike up.
Cheers, Pete
I though I might share some research I found on O2 sensors V o2 eliminators ?
I'm about to install some V&H short shots and investigated the O2 eliminators V's O2 sensors.
This is my understanding of eliminators V sensors
I"ve decided to go the path of getting O2 sensors holders mounted in my Vance & Hines pipes rather than O2 eliminators.
I'm currently getting some O2 sensor holders welded into my short shots ($100 from local motorbike shop mechanic, he installs the O2 sensors on all of the aftermarket pipes for the local bike shop)
O2 eliminators were $45 from eBay so $100 was not to extravagant to drill, custom make 2x holders, line them up correctly and weld.
My understanding from what i have researched, read and asked about.
Although, O2 eliminators work very great they do have one downside!!
They cannot oscillate in the 'closed loop' In the 'closed loop' the ECU reads the O2 sensor oscillations and meters fuel/air/timing to suit.
The bikes ECU has 2 systems. (as do most ECU's/Fuel injections systems since the 2000's and earlier)
Open loop & closed loop
The open loop system uses NO sensing and the ECU is working off the factory fuel mapping.
The Closed loop uses the bike sensors (O2 in this case) and meters fuel using the factory mapping values + sensor values.
The eliminators ONLY work in the closed loop because there is no sensing in open loop. This explains why there is excess fuel burnt on quick deceleration sometimes causing popping and flames.
For the majority of the time the O2 eliminators work fine but once the bike is in closed loop the eliminators only have 1 set value (usually 330ohm) and the ECU reads this 'false' value. It is the false value that sometimes causes the bike to usually run rich causing flames and popping. Some people have reported better fuel economy with eliminators but that is most likely because they are riding in open loop more and using the factor maps which are emissions + economy friendly and not power friendly.
As mentioned, I was happy to get the eliminators for my VT400 (same eliminators for the VT750) but on further research I decided to seek someone who knew how to weld O2 sensor holders. 18mm thread and correct placement.
Here is my understanding of the O2 sensor/ECU from my research and asking questions.
The O2 sensor reads the Lambda (The composition of the exhaust gasses) in the exhaust pipe and causing sensor oscillates between known voltages ( something like 0 to 1.20 volts). It is this reading that the ECU uses to determines rich or lean/more or less fuel/air mix
The eliminators work in the middle at about 0.4-0.8v which puts the eliminator just inside/outside the "closed loop"
O2 eliminators work very well because I believe the 330ohm/1/4 watt resistor that most eliminators use resist voltage at the middle point BUT once you are outside the middle zone and into closed loop the resistor value is false (because the resistor cannot oscillate) thus the ECU meters to suit the false value and the bike runs rich.
Rich = more fuel = more fuel = flames & popping.
Note:
Adding a better air filter helps inprove air flow. Therefore, if the bike is running rich (O2 eliminator) combined with better air flow (say, K&N filter) this would = more power?
However, this is not something I've yet to research.
I will get a K&N air filter but only because they are much better than stock.
I hope this was of value and not TOO incorrect.
Cheers, Peter
OH... PS.
HOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN O2 Eliminator
DISCLAIMER: I have NOT performed this and as such cannot vouch for the accuracy of the procedure. However, looking at the O2 eliminators this looks concurrent.
If someone has an O2 eliminator they may like to 'open' up the heat shrink to see what ohms are used? as eliminators are simply resistors.
The ECU send a signal to the sensor but the eliminator 'resist/limits' the signal thus sending back a resisted/limited signal to the ECU thus the ECU meters fuel of the signal sent back.
Buy 2x Dick Smith/Jaycar 330ohm/1/4 watt resistor .50c each
Locate your O2 sensor and unclip the O2 sensor.
Most eliminators are a male plug (found on the actual O2 sensor wires) and where the wires from the sensor would usually go is where the resistor is put.
The sensor connector on the actual bike should be a female connector so seating the resistor should be easy enough into the female connector holes
Locate the 4 wires going into the sensor connector that goes to the Bike /ECU
The wires that feed to the ECU are the white + black white
Firmly seat the resistor wires into the female connectors and carefully fill the connector with silicon to help seat the resistor or electrical tape the resistor into the connector or if your handy, solder the resistor in.
Tuck the newly eliminated sensor connector out of the way.
Your done.... a 50c eliminator.
I think the reason the aftermarket eliminators are dearer is because they source the male plug, put the resistor into the wire holes on the male plug. You then simply clip the male plug eliminator into your female bike connector.
This would be the same as you simply putting the same resistor into the female connector attached to your bike?
Well... I hope this has been of value and as always.
Read my DISCLAIMER that indicated I will not be responsible for what YOU do on YOUR bike. I will not be responsible for you blowing your bike up.
Cheers, Pete
